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From: http://www.atheistlloyd.com/Debunking/NeverSayNever.html  SML157

Never Say Never
Science Can Never Determine Morality? Who Says?

by Lloyd Harrison Whitling

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How many times have you read this lamentation?—

[: ----- Original Message -----

[: The propensity to be religious might be in our genes,

[: and it is religion that decides morality.

[: However, most all religions call upon supernatural beings

[: and powers which are outside the realm of nature and

[: thus outside that with which science deals, so science

[: cannot decide anything about morality.

 

Notice the word 'lamentation' begins with 'lame'. I think that's a copout. Science is all about data, testing, discovery… Religion is all about control, mental and physical dominance, expediency. Morality is about the acquisition of wisdom and the practices stemming from that. Where do you find morality in religion? You don't!

It's about finding answers. The answers don't appear unannounced, they come after the right questions get asked. How do you know when the right questions get asked? You test, experiment… but, with what?

Well, to begin with, you have to figure out what you want to know, right?

So, what do we want to know about religion? Ahah!

We want to know if religions can more effectively establish moral practices and rules than science. We don't know that, because no moral practices and rules have ever been set by science, and science has never really tackled this question. Science, very wisely, simply practices the gathering of wisdom unannounced.

SO: We have the grounds upon which we can design an experiment.

First off, we have to know *exactly* what we mean by 'morality' and 'moral'. We look in our dictionaries and encyclopedias, and search online, and everybody seems to agree it's about good versus bad personal behavior. We then have to find out what 'good' and 'bad' mean, since secular people don't have priests and preachers to explain that to us. We study the various philosophies, discuss it with various people, look in our dictionaries, encyclopedias, and search for the words online. After deleting all the stuff about gods and other untestable premises, we have a good idea and set down parameters for that. Morality, it turns out, is nothing different from what is known in other circumstances as "wisdom". Morality is the practice of wisdom.

So far, no testing, no experiments, we gathered data we hope to find useful. We study that data and try to develop testable concepts out of it. During all of that process, we start wondering about things.

Are we wondering about the right things?

Now, I am not all that well tutored, but I once ran a quality research lab. The one commonality was that we had to find out what we wanted to know before we could try to know it. Does that not apply here, too? After a while we could make predictions, and then try to see how close we could get to forecasting various results.

The Power Behind Religion

Its secret source. Are all religions evil? Are any evil? The nature of evil. How to tell the evil from the good. Is science evil, or only a tool for human knowledge? A tool of evil? Where does evil hide?

The Complete Universe of Memes
by Lloyd H. Whitling.
Check it out. Click here.

So, now that we have done all of that, we can begin to predict that morality is different from ethics. Ethics is about fair play, business and professional practices, dealing with the public and maintaining the public trust, stuff like that. Morality operates at the private, personal, emotional level. Morality has a lot to do with how people feel about things and respond to things. It is about personal wisdom in the ongoing circumstances of our personal existences. It is not about choices others foist upon us, too often to all our detriments. It is about the faces we present to the world, when there may be no world that's looking.

Some of our responses are trained into us, others are common across the board. By eliminating that which is culture-specific, we can posit that which is left over must be natural responses, the way healthy, unindoctrinated human beings will respond to various stimuli as a matter of course.

At this point in the game, we find we have to develop new terminology. 'Good' and 'evil' and 'bad' get tossed out and replaced by words related to pleasure and pain. Testing shows that certain stimuli elicit chemicals to become present in subjects' bloodstreams that indicate not all of them are responding with honest answers. Are they crazy? Not necessarily, maybe just feeling guilty so they will answer "Pain" when their serums show the opposite. Maybe they think little of their God, that it's too dumb to catch them. Or, maybe they intend fooling the testers and enjoy thinking they'll screw up the results. Bunches of possibilities. I observed people will give a negative response to products for reasons that had nothing at all to do with the tests being run. Forget that. Stop asking. Look at the numbers.

Prediction: Pleasure versus pain holds the key to good and evil. Immediate pleasure versus long-range pleasure holds the key to wise human morality. Now:

Don't argue. Just ask the right questions, go look for their answers, and try to prove my prediction is wrong. Don't ask a goddam preacher. Don't voice an opinion. Go do it in a lab, and then go test it in public places and see if it works. If I have gone about this in a wrong way, then write down the right way and do that. Just don't say it can't be done. That's a copout.

_____

Lloyd

 

http://www.atheistlloyd.com/Debunking/PhilosophyOfAtheism.html 

http://www.atheistlloyd.com/Principles.html

 


Copyright ©2005 by Lloyd Harrison Whitling. All rights reserved.

   

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"To deny a right to the experience of pleasure is immoral unless that denial can be justified by a valid presentation of how pain will result from that experience in an amount that would render the expected pleasure regrettable; or, if it can be shown that pain will be induced in others innocent of any involvement. The role of science in moral issues should be to test that, predict that, and find harmless ways to demonstrate that."

— L. H. Whitling in the eBook, Secular Morality

This page last edited on 01/20/2008 

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